Connect with Paul


Jon Taylor:                           04:33                     It is. All good. Well I’m glad to hear that. So where are you right now, Paul?

Paul Thomson:                  04:38                     I’m in Chengdu. Bali at a coworking spot called outpost.

Jon Taylor:                           04:45                     Awesome. So when you’re telling me the story, I think you told me a little bit that you were there. It was a few weeks ago when we first talked and ever since then in the back of my mind I have had this, um, this picture of what it would be like to be in a shared space in Bali. So can you paint a picture for us so we have an idea of what that looks like.

Paul Thomson:                  05:10                     It was actually a really interesting morning because I got woken up by tons of dogs barking, so dogs on roosters and it was, it’s very tropical and I was like, What’s The commotion? Got On and got on my motorbike. So you had a little scooter and I ride into the spot on the way there. There was a procession of all of the local people. So they’d left the houses. I’m talking anywhere between maybe 1500 to 2000 people in one line walking along the streets together, a kids, families, prams and everything. And I’m trying to weave through them on the wage of this coworking spot, beaches just down the road. Like it’s just a magical place. It’s a public holiday here. Lots of religious holidays were obviously walking to the temple and I was riding through on the motorbike. I get here the coworking space greeted by the staff. There’s a fresh coconuts sitting out on the front, go up past the pool and it’s a beautiful palm trees. And then sit upstairs and look out over this. Yet this tropical landscape is just stunning. But I such a magical place to be granted in and to work from.

Speaker 3:                           06:19                     Well, how did you, how did you end up there? Did a. What happened that you were so fortunate to, to make it, to this beautiful paradise to work?

Paul Thomson:                  06:31                     Well, I, uh, I was a teacher. I taught for seven years in high schools and then took up an opportunity to join a tech startup that worked in the social media space and they were a fully remote company, meaning I could work from anywhere in the world that I wanted to. So of course, you know, I was, I was young and excited and I was like, I’m just going to travel the world to go everywhere I’m going to work for. Anyway. My first stop leaving Australia was Bali. I’m going to go to Bali, see how that goes. Well, wouldn’t, you know, I met a beautiful go and American who was also traveling to Bali and she was working and my travel plans, uh, slowed to a halt and we kind of just stayed based in Bali and I’ve been, I worked with that company for about two years and then just, yeah, moved onto my own projects and still kept up the remote a lifestyle basically. So as long as I have my laptop and my internet, I can work from anywhere in the world. Uh, and yet Bali was the first stop and now my partner and I, we still live here and we just use this as a base. It’s very close to Singapore and Hong Kong and the international airports and we can, we can fly anywhere we want in the world. And it’s a, it’s a beautiful place to live.

Speaker 3:                           07:50                     That is a wonderful story. So you were a teacher before and then you worked for, um, a social media company and then you, now you’re basically a teacher again or a coach again, right?

Paul Thomson:                  08:01                     Yep. Yeah, yeah. So it’s, you know, it’s an exciting pause and it just, it seems very a flippant in between. But, uh, I joined the tech space, a startup as a customer support basically in tech support where I was still kind of teaching people just in a different format, you know, breaking down complex ideas, uh, was working with technology which I loved getting into back end of websites, building things, breaking things and trying to work out what was going on and that really excited me. And so now I’ve gone full circle after moving into the coaching space with my partner in her business, uh, you know, I, I a dove really deep into that field and I realized that there was a huge gap in the industry where these coaches wanted to scale their businesses through offering products or services outside of the one on one face to face kind of model because they are limited for time.

Paul Thomson:                  09:00                     Uh, and you can only say so many people one on one before you burn out or reach capacity. And so they were looking to create courses and programs and coming from an education background, you know, I saw that there was, there was a difficulty in these coaches trying to package up their ideas into a, you know, educational, engaging format and to deliver it, um, both practically and technologically what there was a vast gap between their skillset and what they knew and then what they could deliver on. And for me, I was like, wow, this is just like secretly I was like, this is amazing because it blends both of my passions. Right? I love teaching and education and then I love technology as well as I love building things and breaking things. I thought I can, I can really help you. So I started in our own business, you know, we’re helping my partner and then moved on to like her clients and then it just, it escalated from there. And now I’m helping a tons of people all over the world with this exact same problem. They’re just looking for that help and support in getting their ideas packaged into a course and delivered in a really beautiful and, uh, educational and elegant and engaging way.

Speaker 3:                           10:13                     Well, you, you touched a little bit on something they thought was really important. You said there’s skillset, there was a gap in from what they are as a coach to being a teacher. Can you describe that a little bit more?

Paul Thomson:                  10:26                     Yeah, so I think more of the skill set that I was referring to is like the, the technological skill set of building out the automation and sequencing and things like that. But there is a difference between coaching and education. Uh, see education is, is really that instilling or imparting knowledge in a way that allows the other person to kind of absorb it and um, and bring it into their own kind of skillset and workflow. See with coaching, a lot of the times, you know, we’re helping people discover their own path and you know, and encouraging them and inspiring them and moving them in the direction that you know, feels best for them. With education, I mean they’re coming to you to learn a specific skill set or a specific task. Now I’m breaking up. That task can be really difficult if you haven’t done it before and being able to articulate exactly what it is you trying to teach and then break it down in a way that is going to be easily consumable and digestible and understandable for someone to kind of learn off you, uh, is quite a tricky.

Paul Thomson:                  11:34                     I always bring it back to the analogy. I don’t know if the schools in America were the same, but there was always this one and science teacher or math teacher who was a doctor in science or Dr. Doctorate and maths and they were the smartest mathematician or scientist, you know, in the, in that we, you all. And then there were trying to teach class and we just struggle. Could not comprehend why these kids couldn’t learn or, or just couldn’t, couldn’t understand why they were articulating these scientific principles and they thought it was easy. But the people, the students don’t learn. I found it really difficult and that’s still happening today. People are jumping into online courses, they feel like this is really easy. If I just record this video and share it out, people are gonna. Look, that’s not the case. Right? But we have to really take some, some steps along the way to break it up into a format or a style that is sequential, right?

Paul Thomson:                  12:27                     That does give these indicators of like, Oh yes, I’m achieving this. Okay, now I go to the next step. And that’s the pot where coaches slip up sometimes. Uh, I think they feel like they just deliver it or record a light color, like a river of information, you know, they just pour out everything that’s on their mind and to a video and then they upload that and they’re like, Yep, done. Now that is that module, now move to the next one. And we know from experience, that’s not the most, uh, the best way to kind of teach someone at all.

Speaker 3:                           13:03                     That is such a good point. I see that a lot with coaches. They are, they’ve been doing this for a long time or they have a lot of education in a specific area and they just, you know, give all the information of what that is without the context of framing it. So someone who has no idea of what they’re talking about could actually take it in and it’s, it’s such a challenging thing for. I think it’s a challenging thing for coaches to understand in the beginning. What is, what does the, uh, the education model look like? Can you break it down into like three easy steps of, of what?

Paul Thomson:                  13:47                     Sure. Sure. I mean, that’s, that’s kind of a profound statement here at wake. We’re getting fairly existential, but one thing you touched on was, was when you were talking about they, um, coaches don’t give the context. And that really resonated with me because I hadn’t a format of how I structure lessons to be the most, um, to give the best possible chance for some kind of educational value ride this body of knowledge. And so when you start a lesson, and this is like a practical step here. So when you start a lesson, always begin with a definition, just define exactly what you were going to teach in this lesson, so outline it a, then go in and explain what the lesson is going to be about or what that topic is about. Then give some context as to why this is important in the grand scope of your course.

Paul Thomson:                  14:41                     Then give us a demonstration or an example, right? Show them how to do it or show them an example of how it was done. And then finally, do you have an actionable task, right? Get them to to take action and do something to sort of break it down. Again, define what you are to teach. Explain what that is, give a little context to why it’s important. Then give a demonstration or example show through your own skill set and then finally given actionable task to move ahead with and put that into action. And you’ll find with that format, I mean that is going to completely change the way that most coaches deliver online courses. No longer will we see the 40 minute, 50 minute, hour and 10 minutes video module lessons. We get down to these really bite sized manageable videos. I’m talking five minutes to 15 minutes tops for a specific topic.

Paul Thomson:                  15:38                     Once that topic has been learned, then we can go to the next topic, right? Like people, a teachable, one of the largest hosting platforms say that out of the top schools. Most of the videos are between five and 15 minutes long, you know, for their highest performing top schools and I believe it know we are so time poor at the moment, especially people who are trying to grow and become better there. Obviously there might be like balancing jobs now that might be trying to get into new jobs and then I’d have time to sit through an hour and a half of you talking over a slide show. It’s got to be punchy. Fifteen minutes, five to 15 minutes lessons. Tell me what I want to learn, teach it to me and then give me to put that into action. And if you use that system, drag your whole course, you will see a huge, huge increase and improvement and engagement rates and retention, how long people stay on that course and how much do people use the content.

Jon Taylor:                           16:38                     That is such a good point. I was studying a old, some older online courses from probably five years ago and all of the courses had, they must have had like 45 one hour courses or 45 or 40 minute courses and I’m like, this is a lifetime of information and how much of it is really valid. And they went into a lot of stories of, you know, this person did this and this and did that. And it was well produced and it was fantastic. But it was just so much that I couldn’t even start looking at it because it was just, you know, so much material just overwhelmed. It was, it was very overwhelming. I know you mentioned teachable, um, you have any product on teachable, correct?

Paul Thomson:                  17:27                     Uh, yes. So at the moment on teachable, I just have a simple free course on how to pick your course, idea, the topic a lot of people get stuck with trying to wake out like, what am I actually going to teach, you know, what do, what do I want these people were my audience to learn. And so I just break down and again, really videos, just a couple of simple steps on how to kind of work that idea out for yourself. Um, and yeah, so that’s on teachable. Uh, I really enjoy teachable. I think it’s a great course hosting platform. If you are challenged with design skills, I mean, I can’t draw stick figures. I am horrible at design and teachable is aesthetically pleasing and it looks good and it feels great. The other competitor to competitor to teachable is thinkific. Again, it is, it is an amazing course. Hosting platforms, both of them are inseparable in my opinion. You can flip in between. I just think teachable is like a little bit prettier and think if it is probably better for those coaches have businesses probably who want a more of a white label solution. So were you hired all of the reference to the brand of thinkific and just have this course kind of hosting tool to host your content?

Jon Taylor:                           18:47                     That’s interesting. I’m fascinated at what the answer is. Do you host it on your site and create a wordpress back end and just sell your product on your site or is teachable the way to go?

Paul Thomson:                  19:03                     Well, it just depends on who is producing the courses and what your kind of end goal is for the average coach who just wants to have one flagship product, a kind of thing, uh, and they don’t have the capital to invest in what press development then going with thinkific or teachable is absolutely is a great idea. The thing with that though is you have to burn through $100 a month to subscribe, to think, give equal teachable. So you’ve got to factor that into your costs of hosting the course and sell again, right? You need to kind of make that money back. The second part is if you want to host it on your own website, there’s a few factors that need to come into place. First of all, you need to have your website on, right? So the kind of the core wordpress side, and you have would likely have to have some kind of development background, uh, to build in the blend of plugins like a course hosting an lms, which is, stands for learning management system, just a way to organize your course content and the back end of wordpress and not use learndash for that.

Paul Thomson:                  20:20                     Uh, and then you would need to have some kind of a payment gateway, uh, like a sales page and clicks on your payment card that links access to learn dash. And it’s like an intricate system, right? And so all of those pieces, that system on the back end needs to be created from scratch. The advantage of having it with teachable or thinkific is that’s all done for you, right? You just, you just pop in there putting your staff and you’re away. The people who are using the courses, self hosted on wordpress, are those probably more advanced in their business who want to not be reliant on an APP or a product like teachable or thinkific? Because the thing is, if they go down or a bust or if they, um, you know, Louis access or something happens, I mean, that’s all of your products, all of your courses that are just now shuttle, right?

Paul Thomson:                  21:16                     You don’t have any control over that, you know, teachable could say, actually we do own all of this content and you know, you’ve been bad or whatever it is. I’m absolutely making these scenarios up. But you don’t own that, that content, if you have it on your own website, I mean, you get to own the content. You get to say how it’s delivered and how it looks, what the experiences for the users. You can change everything. It’s completely customizable. People who have courses on their own website usually have a suite of courses, right? They might have a, a range of courses and a membership site built in and it’s all blended into one condom. Sys, uh, it’s those people that I would suggest going into the wordpress. But if you’ve just got, um, you know, just one course or you know, maybe one or two courses and you can support the $100 a month subscription to that, um, that platform, then you will find it’s a much quicker and cheaper in the initial setup period to just go with a teachable or thinkific and that it is to kind of pay up front to get some con.

Paul Thomson:                  22:27                     Someone like me basically to build out the course on your wordpress website. WordPress websites going to be more than $1,200. Does the teachable take a commission? I’m not on there. It’s like a business plan. So the hundred dollar a month plan doesn’t take a, a cut that cheaper plan. I think at $49 they do take a cut. So they’ll take, I think it’s maybe one or three percent or something like that. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s not huge at all. And the other one that people have used before is udemy. Me Now I just want to like put out a public service announcement is a, if you put your course on Udemy that’s totally fine. I mean, you know me is great if you don’t have an audience to sell to, that’s what you’d be as full and Udemy is for people who have no audience whatsoever that want to upload their course or their skills into a course and sell it.

Paul Thomson:                  23:22                     I’m on a course marketplace. The catch with the Udemy is you cannot set the price, right. You might tell you to me that you want to sell your course for $200, that you can discount it to whatever they like. Usually like nine 99, $9 99. And so while you’re expecting to get $200, you will be allowed to get a cut of that $9 right here to me, sets the prices. The other thing you, to me that is a kind of disadvantages. You don’t get to keep email addresses. Now we all know the importance of our email list and nurturing those clients past and present. Uh, with Udemy you don’t have access to those emails. So I would err on the side of caution for someone jumping onto udemy with a course to just think longterm. Like, what’s your end goal here? Are you building up your own kind of client base or are you just trying to, um, you know, create a bit of a side income through the skills that you already mining.

Speaker 3:                           24:19                     Okay, well that is great. Great Information. You to me is for the person who doesn’t want to make any money and has no audience and teachable is a great place. If you’re gonna make one course and you can afford $100 and then if you want to make the big investment and you’re going to create a wordpress course. Now, what exactly does your, uh, your, your course on teachable? Um, what does that do? Is it, it’s a, um, it’s a, uh, outlined planner, 101. What else? What other kinds of information does that? Of course, having it.

Paul Thomson:                  24:58                     So that course is, um, oh, so I’ll let you know the, just a little bit of a marketing kind of insight into what’s happening with that teachable course because it might be useful for your audience as well. So basically what I’m doing is I’m creating a free course to get people into the top of my sales funnel, right? So what happens is I’ll do this free course and then at the end of that free course, they get upsold into the paid course and the pain causes a lot of course, and it’s just a general kind of course builder. It’s like a step up, right? Sequential from that course. Then they will go into a third slot in a funnel where they go up to a fairly high 10, kind of do it with you service. That kind of model of getting people in with a, a free course is, is really popular in the course builder’s industry.

Paul Thomson:                  25:57                     Uh, and I would say that it is, it is pretty highly converting, Eh, you know, it’s, um, it’s something I’ve seen done really successfully in the past. Uh, and so the free course for anyone who’s thinking about going down this path, I mean, it only needs to be 15 minutes long, like the whole length of the course. It is a quick actionable, I will do this course. I will learn something from it that I can take and put into action to get the new kind of president and the topic of your funnel to go, oh, okay. Then this person knows what they’re talking about. A old, I have another course for sale. I might buy this one, right? It’s like a taste test. It’s a little teaser. So, so the course is, is literally just the fundamental steps for how to create, come up with your course topic and it goes through the range of your skill sets.

Paul Thomson:                  26:50                     Um, you know, like what are your hobbies, what are your interests, what are you Korea like skills, um, and what do people ask you for advice for? Then a kind of maps those out into a, um, a way for you to kind of validate it with your audience goes through things like, you know, how do you make sure that people want to buy this? How do you check to see if there is any interest at all? And once that has happened, then it’s a take action on building your course. Let’s see, when people come to me and I see it a lot, they say, I want to build a course. Which platform do I use? No one starts. Very, very few people start at, okay, what am I actually wanting to teach and do? Does anyone even want to buy this? Right? So that’s going to be the first step.

Paul Thomson:                  27:38                     Making sure that someone actually wants to buy your course before you even start building it and the course platform that comes at the end. That is the very last piece. I mean you need to do a lot before you get to that end piece. There is a big drive at the moment. There’s two schools of thought. One is, you know, sell your course first before you build it and then build it once you have people inside, and then the second school of thought is build your course and then sell it. I personally feel like it is unethical to sell your course based on, you know, doc points on a sales page and imply to the people that are going through your sales page that you have this magical tools build. It’s gonna. Give you all of these outcomes, these are all the modules in it, buy it now and have absolutely nothing created.

Paul Thomson:                  28:34                     I just don’t feel great about that at all. And one of my favorite books, it’s called the lean startup and basically in that book it talks about this lean approach to building a company. And so when they say like, just build the minimum viable product, so the smallest product that you can build and so that actually does something right that actually works for people. And so when you get into like the, the course builders kind of realm of this, people have kind of misinterpreted this lean approach to selling courses where they put on the sales page, this beautiful sales page, and they list out the dock points of the modules and all the lessons. And then they, uh, they sell that as the course thinking that’s the minimum kind of work that they have to do. But that’s not a usable product, right? That’s not gonna help anyone.

Paul Thomson:                  29:29                     You’re just selling dot points on a sales page. Now, a minimum viable product would be a very, uh, what they call it, a Beta course or like early access that is totally fine if you are transparent about, hey, this is, this is an early access Beta access to the first draft of my course, you’re getting it for a discounted price. And on that, uh, on the condition that I get a testimonial and that you give me feedback as you go through it, that’s, that’s totally fine. And what you will see is that there will be a rush of people who were like, wow, I’m getting this great information. It’s practical. I’m getting something out of it. Yes, I will give you feedback, which is really honest in the moment because they will tell you explicitly like, I was expecting more or I wanted to learn about sex.

Paul Thomson:                  30:17                     And you can kind of build that into your next iteration. So when you go to sell version two, now you have targeted feedback that you’ve put into place and you have a bunch of testimonials on how good your course was. Then when you go to sell it and like version to the real version, it just keeps repeating the cycle, keeps repeating, bring people through, they’ve learned, you’ve learned from the last bench what you needed to add or change or include. You’ve made those changes, get some more testimonials and it just keeps trickling out that way. Um, but yeah, I think selling those dot points on our sales page and I feel great about that at all. Um, I, I really think you should be selling something practical first and so people, the, the argument to that is people will say you’re, Whoa, what if I build it all and no one buys it?

Paul Thomson:                  31:04                     And so, which is, which is totally a, a real, um, a real scary thought for some people. Like, I’m going to do all this work, invest all this time and some money into building this and no one’s going to buy it. Well then I take it back to them. I said, well, did you, did you revalidate it? Like, was there any interest that people want in this course? How did you get the course topic? Were you surveying your audience? Um, you know, like all of these steps and processes before they go to build the course should have been taken into account, should have been done first so that when the time comes to hit open cart, you already have a waiting list. You know, you already have a list of people who have told you, yes, I want to buy this course. Show me, tell me when it’s opening right? Only then should you kind of have built the course and be, be selling it is probably the best way to kind of stay, stay successful.

Speaker 3:                           32:02                     That was like a, a whole, a wealth of knowledge. And I thank you so much for that. When you, uh, when you talked about starting the top of your funnel with a free module, that’s could be a great way to validate your idea and your course to see if it works, to see if people want to go through it to see if you’re teaching. Well. Now my question for you is, with that free module, do you use a module from your course or do you do something separate from the course?

Paul Thomson:                  32:34                     We can use a module from your course. That’s the beauty of it, right? It could be the first step. It could be, um, you know, the second module of your course or it can just be a couple of lessons on some kind of practical component of your, your flagship course. Uh, you don’t have to double up if you don’t want to. You don’t have to do the work. I mean, it’s a free course when they buy your paid course, they up getting a huge, huge extra bundle of, of educational content and no one is going to go do your course and say like, oh, Hey, I’ve already done this. Like I feel ripped off now because you’re adding so much extra context and value outside of that. So for me, right, my free content course is a balance. Picking your idea and validating it. But when I go into, in the free course is the actual, like the deep, deep practical steps of validation. Like how do you build up a sales funnel? Like what do the email nurturing campaigns look like for a white list? All right? So those aspects are in a paid kind of content cause there, there’s some pretty deep, deep learning practical tasks that in a free course aren’t going to be, um, like the, the free course is designed to give action and give a successful kind of end result. The paid courses designed to help implement efficiency and effectiveness.

Jon Taylor:                           34:04                     That is good advice. No. When you’re picking your, your course topic, a lot of, there’s a lot of stuff online and it says you got to follow your passion and do what you love. Is that always the best idea?

Paul Thomson:                  34:18                     Not at all because my, my passion could be growing bonsai trees and I think the market for me selling bonds I growers might be quite slim. Uh, but you know, with, with coaches, it starts with your audience. I mean, we’re all a life coach, business coach, health coach. The coaching industry is niche down into lots of different kinds of fields. You fundamentally have a drive for doing what you are doing, right? So that’s going to be taken into account. Like what the question I get people to ask is what skill or piece of knowledge do you want your students to have learned once they have completed your course? Right. So when they kind of answered that question, that draws into a lot of different areas to get to that as a course builder. There are three areas where I say like, if you have no idea whatsoever about what you’re going to teach is a place to start.

Paul Thomson:                  35:26                     First of all is studying with kind of what, um, what hobbies do you have now? So what do you do in your spare time? Just for fun. And we tapped into passion, but just list out all the things. So, you know, I like, like crossfit, I love eating at restaurants, I love technical technological apps and websites says my list of hobbies. The second question would be what skills or careers have you had and what skills have you learned from those careers? So mine range from retail to customer service, to the Tech Industry to coaching, to, you know, I have a teaching, so have listed out those skills. Then third is the tricky one. A, the exciting one, sorry, it’s what do people ask you for advice or help with? So all of the time, whether you notice or not, people are going to be asking you questions and you may not realize it at first, but once you go back and you look at your conversations, you’ll see people ask you about specific things that you might not realize.

Paul Thomson:                  36:25                     They might ask you John about like, Hey, I’ve got this problem. What do I do with the engine? Sounds like this. Or they might ask me, um, pole which is healthier this meal or that meal. Now I don’t associate myself as being a dietician by any means, but people are asking me for advice because he trains eat pretty healthy. So I’m going to ask him for advice. So what’s down all of the things that people ask you for advice or help with. And now you have three pools of skills and attributes that you can pull from. You have your hobbies and what you do there. You have your skills, you’ve learned from your Korea’s and you’ve had things that people ask you for advice on the cross section of those three is your sweet spot. If you can blend in those skills and find a kind of a mesh of those three things, that right there is going to be at the precipice of your teaching ability to blending those three things together. From there, then it just comes down to your validation. So the audience, who are you serving, you know, like who is your target audience, who do you want to teach and once you’ve have it now, but then what do you want to teach them?

Speaker 3:                           37:37                     So when, when you’re doing that, do you want to you, you talked about this great. I can see that that venn diagram and that sweet spot in the middle, you know, would you take into account what other people are doing and uh, avoid or, you know, take that as a factor at all? Or would you just completely ignore what other people are doing and kind of take your skills and what your audience would want?

Paul Thomson:                  38:07                     I think using what other people are doing is a great indicator that you could possibly be doing the same thing, right? You know that it’s already validated. So the, some of the ways you can do that is to jump onto youtube is great and search the skill or topic that you want to teach. If there are only a handful of videos, then maybe the, uh, the need for what you want to teach isn’t so great. However, if there are of results that pop up for your topic or your question or anything like that, then you know, hey, there’s an audience here. I mean I can sell something to them. So Youtube is one of them. Google keyword research and like the Google ads console is another one. Google trends is is another one, like putting your topic and what is the trend like? Is it growing?

Paul Thomson:                  38:59                     Is it nonexistent? And using all of these ways to just research, get on Udemy, right? Type in your topic and just see what’s in the course marketplace. Are other people doing it? If you have absolutely no results in your area, then you’re going to have a hard time. It’s not the same that you can’t do it, but it’s going to say that there just isn’t a validated audience day yet, so it’s going to be an uphill battle. You finding that audience and you monetizing them basically, if there is a huge response, uh, in these search queries and you’ve got overwhelming number of courses and topics and areas and that topic is, is very, very much validated and you have a market to break into. So I wouldn’t be put off with the abundance of courses, um, but I would look at, um, being like niche down or strategic.

Paul Thomson:                  39:54                     So one example is like a photography course there, there are probably hundreds of thousands. I was going to say millions but hundreds of thousands photography courses online. If you just do a photography for beginners course, you’re probably gonna have a hard time selling it because there are already photography courses out there that are very, very successful and they will always pop up. However, if you’re doing a, a, a photography course for um, you know, beginning wedding photographers or photography course for kids, birthday parties, right? So something niche down in an area that hasn’t been covered yet, that it’s still general to the topic, but you can kind of narrow in on your skillset, uh, then you will find that again, we talked about that sweet spot in that Venn diagram. Then you find you have a validated idea in an area that you have the skills and the passion for and that you can teach someone how to do that because they will, they will look at everything. But I want to get into the wedding industry shifts is perfect photographer people winning, you know, winning photographers. And so that’s how I would say to, to balance that out.

Speaker 3:                           41:09                     John, that is, um, that is great advice. Now you talked about having a lot of courses out there. Is there too many courses out there? I mean as the market saturated or what, what is your opinion on where we are at in the, in this industry,

Paul Thomson:                  41:26                     the online education industry is. I read a quote the other from a Tai Lopez because the industry is going to cost $1,000,000,000,000. There is no slowing it down. I mean people, the teachable thinkific has had its biggest year. Yet of course creators, a teachable is expanding that company at an exponential rate. More and more people are jumping onto online courses than ever before and the industry isn’t saturated yet. A much like the coaching industry, right? We feel like the coaching industry is saturated, but most of the world doesn’t know what coaches are yet. Right? It’s only saturated because my surrounded by coaches, so the outside of that, there are millions of people. When you look at statistics like India, about to jump aligned, that there is another, you know, there’s hundreds of millions of people that are yet to access the Internet who are going to come on then in the next few years.

Paul Thomson:                  42:31                     I mean, if you are not prepared yet for that, then it’s time. It’s time to start those wheels in motion and kind of creating that infrastructure to accommodate those people. Who are you and you don’t want. You don’t need a thousand, hundreds of thousands of people to like customers to buy courses have you to make a sizeable portion of money, uh, you, you can easily, easily six figures a year from courses just by selling, you know, a hundred, 100 people a month, if that’s like 50 people a month. It’s just, it’s, it’s about compounding your courses. It’s about keeping those funnels open, keeping people coming in, giving them content that’s actionable and creating a presence on social media and marketing yourself in a way that kind of draws people into wanting to teach a little bit like how we drove the coaching as well. You know, it’s, you will, you will. There are no shortage of customers and I don’t think it’s saturated yet and I think it’s going to be a very, very long time before the market even gets close to being saturated.

Jon Taylor:                           43:43                     That, um, I, I agree and I’m, I’m not sure what the next evolution is. Everyone’s always kind of thinking what’s the next big thing? It was, it was youtube and then it was the social media is, and now it’s online courses. And what is that next big thing going to look like? And it could be a hybrid of, of analog and digital experience or something like that.

Paul Thomson:                  44:08                     I think it’s going to be yet virtual retreats, you know, or just chuck out headsets on and we’ll go on a virtual retreat and we won’t have to travel to Bali. It’ll just be in our living rooms and experiencing. I’m working with other people in a one on one group in like a one to few group setting, but virtually I think is probably one thing that’s left to be explored as that technology comes on board.

Jon Taylor:                           44:34                     That would be good. But I still want to go to Bali, Bali anytime. Absolutely. Absolutely. That’s on the list. So when you’re, when you’re making a course, um, you have a number of course coaching packages, uh, how long does it take for someone? Let’s say they’re, they’re in the business for a little bit. They got some material. Um, how long is it going to take him to get a course online and make money? That’s the big question.

Paul Thomson:                  45:05                     Yep. So the part of it marketing courses isn’t starts long before you build your brand, your company’s brand, your personal brand online is the direct driver of online course. The more present you are and showing people the solution or the transformation, you know, in marketing the transformation and how well you do that is how well you’re going to sell the course. Creating the course content. I mean probably the longest part for most people is actually recording the videos, recording the content. Did this day and age, the majority of your course has to be video content. I mean you to me, I think it’s 60 or 70 percent of your course content has to be video before they’ll even let it go onto their website, onto the marketplace. So and places like teachable and thinkific. Again, they geared towards video courses. I mean that’s just the expectation. Producing video content is pretty hard for most people if they haven’t done it before.

Paul Thomson:                  46:05                     We all jump onto facebook live. That’s pretty easy. You just click a button and talking to the foreign and then stopped the button and the video is there. But when you create a professional course, um, that kind of stop start mentality talking in a concise way without interruption and clearly and not waffling on, just hitting your target points is a, is a new skill to learn for a lot of people. So I would say creating the content and the resources and the workbook is probably the longest part and it is just around how much time they have. I mean, you can do a course in, in a week and a few days if you really wanted to kind of space it out. Um, I would just say maybe a week or two to kind of build out the content up to about four weeks, say two to four weeks to kind of plan the course, which I believe is the most important part of creating that plan and framework first.

Paul Thomson:                  47:03                     Then building the content. And then finally, last space, just uploading it and putting it all together, linking all the payment stuff in terms of how fast can we sell a course and make money while you’re building it and recording it. That’s when you start, um, like posting a batter and talking about the transformation, whip up your sales page as soon as you have the course structure and modules and lessons all planned out and start marketing this sales page and letting people know we talked about the Beta. I mean, that’s, that’s a pretty lucrative path for a lot of people. It allows them. We’ve talked about the benefits of validating their idea, getting people onto a white list, getting those engaged, kind of use ready to buy off you. If you do that well enough, and if you have an audience that knows you, they like you, they trust you, they’ve bought off you before. When you bring out this product that will give them a transformation that you know that they are going to want a then the selling, you know you could be building, have you built and sold within a couple of weeks.

Jon Taylor:                           48:14                     That is promising. I think a lot of people look at a course and they think it’s going to be eight months or a year and you really breaking it down into bite size modules, not just the content that you would deliver, but how to do it. I really love the way that you teach. It’s, it’s very, um, you’re, you’re a good teacher, Paul.

Paul Thomson:                  48:39                     So you’ve been doing this for awhile. I am, just to interrupt, sorry. They’re one of the easiest ways to get started with courses. That, to kind of put the overwhelm, a sign is to just start with the plant, right? Just start what you want to teach. Uh, I have a template. I mean, I can forward it to you if you liked for you to, to send out to your audience, but it just kind of gives this breakdown of exactly how to put your lessons in what resources go with those lessons, what kind of social media posts you want to put in, like your private community. Um, and it’s just a template, right? It’s, it’s logical when you work backwards. It doesn’t need to be overwhelming when you’re just trying to answer this fundamental question again, what is it, what skill or knowledge that you’d want your students to have learned once they finish your course?

Paul Thomson:                  49:30                     And once you answer that question, you can step that out, right? All they need to learn, you know, Abcd and you list all of those out and there become all of your modules and lessons. Squeeze them into an order and group them into similar kind of chunks. That’s your module and then your lessons. It’s, it really is. It can be as simple as just sitting down for a couple of hours one day and having a deep think about what you want to teach and listening at what people need to do to learn that skill. And there you have your lessons for your course.

Jon Taylor:                           50:06                     Well, that is a very generous offer. Powers, so glad to have that. We’re going to put that in the show notes and we’ll have a download so that people can get that template. And, um, let’s start on their course. And of course, what we would like to do is make sure that everyone knows how to get in touch with you. Paul, where’s the best to find you?

Paul Thomson:                  50:29                     Sure. So my website is www dot Paul Thompson. Thompson is t h o, m a s o n as you’ll see in the show notes and on facebook. My facebook page is at the Pole Thompson, so both those very same people. Johnsonville come April Thompson on facebook and you’ll see there’s a link to. I have a, um, an online course creators. It’s just a facebook group purely targeted at people who want to build courses, people who are building closest people are selling courses. And I just, I love it. I love that group. I just sprinkle it in, you know, just little bits and pieces, uh, how tos and information and guides and what’s working for me and my experiences with clients and it’s, it’s a great community, um, that I’ve enjoyed growing, uh, over the last few months. So if you want to learn anything about online course creation or just ask me questions, jump into that facebook group online course creators hub. Find on my page and then linked from my website as well.

Speaker 3:                           51:37                     So you, uh, you spend a lot of time in your facebook group. Does that take a lot of your, is that where your, is that your marketing or does it, does that work really well for you?

Paul Thomson:                  51:47                     Sure. Yep. So I have to, um, two profiles of clients. One is my high profile, um, online coaches, you know, they, they are pulling in six figures a month, they have full marketing teams and they are, they know what they want to teach and they worked with me to kind of bring their courses to fruition. Right? So anything that I want to create a I built for them online. So that’s Kinda one profile of people that are. The other profile is coaches who are trying to crack into the coolest industry of scale a business. You don’t really know how to pop the kind of knowledge into a, into a course. And I really enjoy working with, with that kind of audience. And that’s where I spend most of my time in my, um, my facebook group. It’s just answering some really basic questions for the people who are asking if they are real roadblocks and to be able to just quickly answer efficiently, hey, do this or I think you should try x instead of y. I mean, it just gets people moving so much quicker, you know, I, I just, I love being that vehicle, Ryan, just kind of the catalyst and to helping them kind of move forward and as, as I help more people, I mean I learn more and I get to kind of see the trends and what’s going on with people trying to kind of get into this course building where they make mistakes and how I can teach others were not to make those mistakes.

Paul Thomson:                  53:22                     So I would say yeah, that community is probably one of my biggest drivers of sales and, and work.

Jon Taylor:                           53:32                     We appreciate so much everything that you have shared with us today. Paul, this has been such a pleasure to have you on the show. And, um, you are going to be a great success. It’s good to have you on the show before. You’re a super big and famous still answering our calls. So that’s cool. That’s pretty cool. I like that. Um, so we’re going to leave all of those links in the show notes and make sure that everybody has every way to contact you because I know some people are going to want to contact you after listening to this episode. And Paul, thank you so much.

Paul Thomson:                  54:10                     Yeah, absolutely. I really do appreciate it. And you know, we, we hit it off when we spoke the first time and I’ve enjoyed our chat. I would love to chat more or with the audience whether you want to say is if you have any questions at all, please just message me. Just reach out and ask me. Um, I, I, I live and breathe this courses and technical stuff and so any kind of question you might think it’s really simple, a really complex and you might feel a bit nervous about asking everyone. Just please do reach out and ask me. I’m more than happy to help in any capacity. Uh, so don’t be afraid. Yeah. And thanks again John, for those kind words and I’ll, I’m sure I’ll see you in Bali soon. Get everyone down here.

Jon Taylor:                           55:02                     Hey, we’ll see you in Bali. That’ll be fun.

Paul Thomson:                  55:06                     Alright, thanks a lot Paul. Thank you so much.

Jon Taylor:                           55:12                     Wow, that was a great episode. Right? We are so grateful to have Paul Thompson on our show. I think after listening to that episode, you can understand what I was saying about how great of a teacher Paul is and how well he just describes the step by step, how to do it. And I just got so much out of this episode. Actually, the next day I went in, um, I usually get one or two modules or lessons done in a video session that takes three or four hours. And after listening to Paul, I was so inspired. I think I went through six episodes, uh, and the reason is because I was able to organize my thoughts better after a lot of that information that he gave about defining what you’re going to talk about, give examples and then give the lesson. And I just found that to be so useful in the show notes below.

Jon Taylor:                           56:10                     We are going to have a link to Paul’s template that he promised and this is going to give you a wonderful starting point for building your course outline and Paul is such a fantastic resource. I’d like you to take advantage of that. Go ahead and join his course. I’m going to leave a link in the show notes below. It’s the course creators facebook group and you can find Paul at the Paul Thompson Dot Com and I hope that you have the opportunity to connect with Paul more in the future and if you have not had the opportunity to join our facebook group, which is the marketing for coaches facebook group, you can go to backslash groups, backslash m, f coaches and that stands for marketing for coaches. And we have the episodes come out a little bit earlier in the group and we also have some in depth tutorials that are guests provide for us in the group, uh, which can give you the next step. So after you listen to this episode, you take action, you download the template and you make things happen. Come back to the group and we’re going to give you some more stuff that Paul has given us and you’ll have the opportunity to take it one step further and get that course one step closer to completion. Until then, we’re going to see you next week. I really appreciate you stopping by and have a wonderful, fantastic day. Thank you very much. Bye Bye.


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